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+---- Thread: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal (/showthread.php?tid=5683)
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Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - dirty dan - 04-17-2023
Name of Character: Abraham Goldbergstein
SteamID: STEAM_0:1:50874707
Your Discord ID#: Dirty Dan#3954
Date of PK: 4/16/2023
Reason for PK: Shot by Police
Why should you be unPK'd?: We were shot at by police first when they raided our home, judging whether or not we were armed by gun sounds.
- We were equipping guns for a separate altercation, but the conflict began when shots came in from OUTSIDE and we got ready to fight back
- The windows were blocked by green lockers, making it nearly impossible to see inside (how could officers have known we were arming?)
Killing Rules 10:
"You may not kill/escalate against someone based on Inventory sounds, there's no way to know if a user has equipped a gun, unequipped a gun, loaded ammo, equipped a fishing rod or even who that sound came from without it being considered a form of meta."
- I personally, stood at the door attempting to talk but got no verbal reply, it was not my intention to escalate but the cops forced it upon us. They were not supposed to know we were equipping guns, and I was trying to offer them the man they intended on arresting in order to save our base. The most communication I received was the suppressor of a rifle glitching through our door.
Killing Rules 9 about PK by police:
"This does not apply if it is the Police that fired first or escalated to a shootout."
The armed culprit the police followed into our base was not even in the room when they broke in, he escaped without a PK and is continuing to roam the streets. (Adon Goldbergstein) The idea they had that we should have been armed came from a man who wasn't even in the building to get shot.
If possible please provide video evidence or photo evidence if PK does not follow the guidelines:
The prop base in place that means the windows couldn't have been looked through by standing on the railing:
![[Image: italian_construction.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720357792199868427/1097334920394854532/italian_construction.png)
View from the outside when standing on the ground:
![[Image: doorblind.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720357792199868427/1097334912488579142/doorblind.png)
RE: Abraham PK Appeal - Modem1394 - 04-17-2023
+1 Cops shot first, I ran off L
RE: Abraham PK Appeal - CommanderQuirky - 04-17-2023
+1 Cops shot first, I didn't even get to shoot. No gunfire was exchanged until after the police which shot first into a locked door.
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Drunken - 04-17-2023
So as the officer that killed 2/3 of you i will clarify what occurred. So we got a call about you running towards the motel and being armed, i gave orders for the officers to hold at the door and not to move it. Upon arrival i opened the door and saw nobhead #1 aiming a gun at the door, i shot him. Moving into the room, I saw nobhead #2 running towards the closet, following him i peered round the corner and saw him aiming at the doorway, i killed him. The last person was (nobhead 3) was in the bathroom, he shot me and another officer but he was later killed. Making all three PK's valid. Just because we shot first, does not mean the PK's are invalid. We feared for our lives so we shot you to save ourselves and others.
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - dirty dan - 04-17-2023
(04-17-2023, 02:54 AM)Drunken Wrote: So as the officer that killed 2/3 of you i will clarify what occurred. So we got a call about you running towards the motel and being armed, i gave orders for the officers to hold at the door and not to move it. Upon arrival i opened the door and saw nobhead #1 aiming a gun at the door, i shot him. Moving into the room, I saw nobhead #2 running towards the closet, following him i peered round the corner and saw him aiming at the doorway, i killed him. The last person was (nobhead 3) was in the bathroom, he shot me and another officer but he was later killed. Making all three PK's valid. Just because we shot first, does not mean the PK's are invalid. We feared for our lives so we shot you to save ourselves and others.Shots were fired before the door was even opened, that's the whole pretense of this appeal
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Mascotics - 04-17-2023
(04-17-2023, 02:54 AM)Drunken Wrote: Making all three PK's valid. Just because we shot first, does not mean the PK's are invalid. We feared for our lives so we shot you to save ourselves and others.
I normally would not reply to these because I am not involved, but I think you are overlooking this in the PK Guidelines when it comes to shootouts with PD:
Quote:"This does not apply if it is the Police that fired first or escalated to a shootout."
You have admitted to shooting first, therefore the PK's should technically be overturned by rules. You could have followed the lines of de-escalation as well and attempted to negotiate an end to a potential standoff. You had no pretext to go in firing a weapon. Just my humble opinion, of course.
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Drunken - 04-17-2023
■ Initiating a shootout or violent confrontation with Police can lead to a PK.
Was this not a violent confrontation?
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Mascotics - 04-17-2023
(04-17-2023, 03:04 AM)Drunken Wrote: ■ Initiating a shootout or violent confrontation with Police can lead to a PK.
Was this not a violent confrontation?
Here is the full rule:
Quote:Initiating a shootout or violent confrontation with Police can lead to a PK. Killing or attacking an Officer after initiating a violent confrontation leaves you PK active from officers for about 15 minutes. Generally we want people to not immediately go for the gun when dealing with Police, as a result if you escalate a situation to a shootout and lose you can be punished via PK as your character was killed. This does not apply if it is the Police that fired first or escalated to a shootout.
Pre-text to you opening the door with your weapons already drawn ready to fire, you had no reason to believe anything of that nature would happen. So, I would question why the weapons were drawn to begin with. You can't base your behavior off of he said / she said in Roleplay. You have to form your own facts. With the obvious block on the windows, you didn't have a reason to be in a ready to fire position.
The last sentence also tells the entire story of this appeal - to which you admitted to. "This does not apply if it is the Police that fired first..."
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Dodd178 - 04-17-2023
(04-17-2023, 03:04 AM)Drunken Wrote: ■ Initiating a shootout or violent confrontation with Police can lead to a PK.
Was this not a violent confrontation?
We didn't initiate a shootout or violent confrontation. You shot first therefor you are guilty of escalating the situation into something violent.
RE: Abraham Goldbergstein PK Appeal - Drunken - 04-17-2023
One thing that all parties forgot to say was, they are alt char'ing. They all we on there 'Mugging characters' they all have main characters in other factions.