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+---- Thread: a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) (/showthread.php?tid=5155)
a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) - Donpete1 - 01-13-2023
Name of Character: Ippo "Raijin" Makunouchi
SteamID:76561199190393113
Date of PK:7/1/2023
Reason for PK: Cutting off someone's dick and balls
Why should you be unPK'd?: After waiting a couple days for things to cool down, and reading over the PK guidelines and rules THOROUGHLY, and talking to a TON of people within the server and as well as within the community, I've decided that my PK definitely qualifies for an appeal and I have 3 points to prove it. I have given this application a lot of thought and realize that the more you read this, the more complicated it becomes so I'll start from the beginning. Basically what happened was I cut off this guy's dick and balls for being a snitch and chose out of MERCY and consideration to keep him alive because I raised him as though he were my son, as I do with all of the new recruits. Before i even cut off his dick and balls I let him fully explain himself and even cancelled the dons orders on him because he made it seem like he knew better and it would never happen again. TWO IRL DAYS LATER, yes not 15 minutes later, and yes not an hour later but 2 WHOLE DAYS LATER me and Archer take him into the back of the garrison since Archer wanted to hear the whole story and get things right. After archer heard me and Berkay out (rat mf who got me PK'd) , he orders another recruit who is in the same room as us to shoot him in the chest AS PUNISHMENT, not to kill him . The moment he does that Berkay gets up from his chair and shoots me in the head and archer, and BOOM I get PK'd. "The person in question, must have REPEATEDLY done something to directly harm you, your family, or another member of your family. Unwarranted Harm in a financial (+7,500$) or REPEATED physical way, there has to be tangible damages, disrespect is not a reason to kill someone." As it is stated in the rule above which I have read countless amounts of times, I have to cause REPEATED harm to another meaning not just 1 time or not just 1 scenario. And in this case I did not cause him physical harm REPEATEDLY. That's my first point, this happened ONE TIME and it took 15 minutes at the most to do what I did. THIS WAS WAY AFTER 15 MINUTES SINCE THE INITIAL CONFLICT. After this whole scenario he avoided me all together so I never caused him physical harm AGAIN anytime after that time. Basically after I cut off his dick and balls we had no confrontation or interactions whatsoever. Now my second point is that although I caused him tangible damages(obviously) he PK'd me TWO WHOLE DAYS after the event occurred. Meaning the event happened WAY more10-15 minutes ago , which is the active time frame he has to kill me (PK) , after I caused him tangible damage. "If the perpetrator escapes before you can retaliate and you then try going after them 10 minutes later, that won't be a PK, in that instance you will need to seek approval from an Admin like a regular PK request." That's my second point, that you can't PK me over something that happened two days ago. My third point although it may sound biased, I've talked to at least 30 different criminal people throughout the course of 5 days explaining to them how I got pk'd. And I told them that according to the rules that even if they were to cut off a guys finger, that guy who got his finger cut off can PK you TWO WHOLE DAYS LATER after the event already occurred and naturally they were outraged as it is unfair/unjust for that to happen. I even got into a heated discussion in city hall about this which attracted a lot of people to us and next thing you know we had a crowd, and I heard many different opinions but they all had 1 thing in common. That if this were actually the case there would be ALOT of controversy within the criminal underworld within the server as well as A TON more pk's in the server. The thing is that it's pretty common within criminal factions for an individual to lose a finger, it's so common that it's not even considered a big deal whatsoever it's just seen as discipline or like a tough lesson, none of it is to be taken to heart as it's all IC. To the admins reading this that are in criminal factions you guys know as well how common it is for someone to get their finger cut off for being retarded. Everyone who I told about my PK was outraged at the fact that I got pk'd for discipling someone two days after he was disciplined. The fact of the matter is that if he were going to kill me for cutting off his dick and balls, he should've done it within the allowed timeframe instead of two whole days later when the situation was already over and dealt with and had already deescalated.
If possible please provide video evidence or photo evidence if PK does not follow the guidelines: none
RE: a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) - Canadian-bacon - 01-13-2023
You nearly missed the window.
I want to be clear that while it's both normal and natural to seek other people's opinion just because they may support a singular version of events that you provide doesn't necessarily make the opinion correct or objective. The PK rules are there as a guideline of the basic requirements or outline for possible PKs but each individual situation is unique, so it's up to the discretion of the Administrator to determine a reasons validity, never had someone want his cock and balls back.
So as for the PK I basically interrogated the man for half an hour and determined that his reasoning was valid, that he was able to identify you and that there was no OOC malice.
The official PK reasoning in technicality is: "Causing significant / tangible physical harm, Accusations of being a rat and possible hit / murder being placed"
So as you mentioned in the appeal you cut off his cock, balls and a finger in roleplay, this does ultimately count as harm as it's within roleplay (Of which i had complimented you on) and accused him of being a rat, something for which he maintained innocence of, both in your conversation, my sit with him and the conversation in the backroom before the PK. As you also admit you had put in a 'dons orders pk' and through conversations with you he obviously inferred that his life was a risk, this also counts as another possible reason (circumstantial) if the user can provide proof or suspicion that they may be murdered (usually this is couple'd with other valid reasons as it was here). I later confirmed that you had written a don's order for his PK and you admitted that you deleted it, though you claimed the reason for that at the time was because no one in your faction replied to you, leading you to believe it may not have been supported or approved by your High Command.
A few other things to get through here, obviously shooting someone in the chest as 'punishment' is an odd thing to do when attempting to refute the claim of repeated harm
Concerning the point that you refer to regarding a '15 minute rule' and how it was '2 days later' I don't see how that is relevant. You caused lasting physical harm, no rule states you are exempt from consequences of your actions after 15 minutes. The rule you directly quoted A) Refers specifically to 'If you are the one acting in defense of the PK victim' which wasn't the case or circumstance and B) in the same rule you quoted "you will need to seek approval from an Admin like a regular PK request" which is something he did.
Only 4 other rules mention 15 minutes and none invalidate your PK, they are as follows:
- When you carry out a PK you are pk active 15 minutes after killing the person
- Initiating a shootout or violent confrontation with Police can lead to a PK. Killing or attacking an Officer after initiating a violent confrontation leaves you PK active from officers for about 15 minutes
- You MUST follow NLR after every death. You will not remember anything from the last 15 minutes before your last death in RP
- You may mug one person / singular group of people every 15 minutes. Mugging again immediately, before allowing the timer to expire will be considered Mass Mugging. Realistically you must lay low after mugging someone.
None of these apply here and a person is always able to make a PK request on someone to retaliate within a reasonable timeframe. I think you were confused on the rule as the situation calls for a PK request and NOT a retroactive PK. Had he killed you then attempted to pk you retroactively it would have been denied.
To address the three times you mentioned the word 'repeated' in big bold and italics, as i said the rules are there as base guidelines to follow, PK's are a list of checkboxes that need to be validated before one can be approved, one of those checkboxes as it states in the same line, "there has to be tangible damages". You said it yourself here, you caused both a SIGNIFICANT and TANGIBLE damage. The rule is worded such a way because people would get into something like a fist fight and ask for a PK or theyd have a small item stolen and ask for a PK so the if/or requirement was placed where either the damage to you has to be tangible (expensive good was stolen, serious harm caused) OR it had to be repeated (robbed several times, beaten up several times), and of the course the handling Administrator would determine if one or both of the conditions were met in the request. Cutting someones cock off is tangible, unfortunately.
From the perspective of the individual; in his eyes he was. 1) Accused of something he didn't do. 2) Maintained his innocence and requested mercy. 3) Was punished regardless and lost a finger, cock and balls for it. (Argument regarding extreme workplace punishment to be had) 4) And was then under the belief that he would be murdered based on the conversations that followed. I'd imagine if you were in a similar position and requested a PK as a means of retaliation or pre-emptive protection and were denied because of "well he needs to repeatedly cut your dick off" that it would frustrating.
Losing a finger not being a big deal would just invalidate your own rp for no reason. What's the point of the punishment if it's not a big deal. I enjoy the Sanzensekai punishment roleplay as it provides more depth to their faction, but you also didn't just cut off his finger, you cut this man's cock off. "none of it has to be taken to heart it's all IC" It's roleplay, it's the only sensical time to take it to heart. Obviously I can't speak on his behaviour in OOC afterwards but that doesn't invalidate a reasoning usually.
Just like in our long discussion afterwards I compliment your roleplay and urge you to continue, it was simply the end of your character's story, and a good way to go out in the end. Cutting men's dicks off.
RE: a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) - Donpete1 - 01-13-2023
No idea how to reply to texts in the forums but i mean you said it all perfectly, at the end of the day though It was funny to cut off his dick and balls and iconic. I admit defeat but i couldnt go without atleast trying to appeal, i appreciate you explaing how my PK was valid tho very thorough.
RE: a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) - Canadian-bacon - 01-13-2023
No issues. Closing this at the request of the thread maker.
a HIGHLY controversial PK(hopefully un PK'd) - Canadian-bacon - 01-13-2023
Your appeal has been reviewed and denied.
We have determined this PK to be reasonable and/or justified.
You may not re-appeal this PK.